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More info brother Windsor:
quote="Zorasta_Russ"]I have to admit it Ahmed. This is a good one.[/quote]
AhmedBahgat wrote:
[What do you mean?
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
You have a very good arguement as to why Allah does not have a son.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
I still do not understand !!
I never said that Allah cannot have a son, I only showed that Allah said that He should have no child
WALAD means Child, btw
Walad can not mean Son explicitly
Ibn means Son
Bent means Daughter
Walad, means Child who can be a son or a daughter
Zorasta_Russ wrote:
Well said.
قُلْ هُوَ ٱللَّهُ أَحَدٌ
ٱللَّهُ ٱلصَّمَدُ
لَمْ يَلِدْ وَلَمْ يُولَدْ
وَلَمْ يَكُنْ لَّهُ كُفُواً أَحَدٌ
There can be no likeness of Allah created or begotten. Allah is truly unique. He is one and only one.
Exactly
And if you look at the grammar meaning fo the word "WALAD" which is a noun, it should mean "a child that is been delivered by his/her MOTHER", another form of it is MAWLUD, which is a noun on the wazn of "Mafool Bihi" to mean the exact same, i.e. "a child that is been delivered by his/her MOTHER", i.e. for the word WALAD we must have a female to deliever such child
In effect we have to conclude the following:
Verse 6:101 clearly denies that Allah has Walad, i.e. a child that has to be delieverd by a female god, who suppose to be the female companion of god
Had the verse used the word Ibn (son) instead of Waald, then we will have a huge contradiction in the Quran, because it will contradict with the verses you posted, that is because the wrong understanding will be: How Allah can have a son while he has no female companion, which in effect may mean, that he may have a daughter without a female companion, SEE
that is where the verses you posted comes in effect which clearly tells us the followinh about Allah:
Lam Yalid, i.e. He did not deliever a child (regardless with a female companion of not)
Lam Yulad, i.e. He was not delieverd from a female god
Thanks
Posted:
Wed 05 Nov, 2008 6:23 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Hey bro Windsor
This is a question for you by an FFI member whom I think is very decent:
Aksel, Ankersen wrote:
Hello Ahmed
What problem does your friend Windsor have with Zoroastrians? Just reading the commentary from free-islam.com and it sounds like he is the hater.
Can you ask him please?
This is rich coming from a Zoroastrian retard . Has this arrogant retard ever opened one page of his stupid scripture?
Posted:
Thu 06 Nov, 2008 7:24 pm
Windsor Pawn
Status: Age: 38 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Quote:
Great mate, please add as much valid info as you can,
Peace brother AhmedBahgat, and apologies for being late to reply here. I was busy debating a Zoroastrian racist over the last 2 days.
And I thought Christians were the dumbest among the religious adherents!
I will add my replies over the weekend hopefully.
Peace.
Posted:
Fri 07 Nov, 2008 4:48 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Salam all
Today you should witness one of the FFI freaks in action, I had a few encounters with such FFI goon, however I concluded that he is a clear cut jerk, but I decided not to life dismiss him because every now and then he comes and say something that is too stupid to be ignored, i.e. it must be replied to, taking the chance to show everyone how fool he is
The FFI goon is named Haik Monsieur, he claims to be an ex Muslims (which I believe is a lie), he also claims that he has most of the man made hadith books and many other man made sirah books (in Arabic), this means he also claimed to k now Arabic very well, which something that I doubted then proved so many times in front of all the other FFI goons
This is the confused, manipulated and manipukated (not a typo) freak who once said the following on FFI to one of the very knowledgeable Muslim brothers whom I rarely see on FFI (borther shindeiru):
Deceiver Haik Monsieur said to brother shindeiru on FFI:
Haik Monsieur wrote:
We in FFI have a schema and to accomplish it, I can?????????????????????¢??t let your arguments win.
See, how the freak is admitting his deception to humanity, i.e. THEY HAVE A SCHEME TO ACCOMPLISH, THEREFORE THEY CANNOT LET THE MUSLIMS ARGUMENTS TO WIN
This must mean the following: THEY HAVE A SCHEME TO ACCOMPLISH, THEREFORE THEY CANNOT LET THE MUSLIMS ARGUMENTS TO WIN, EVEN IF THE MUSLIM ARGUMENTS ARE WINNING
How dumb admitting their own deception, HM today replied to another kafir goon on FFI who raised a thread titled: Allah is the best deciever. , asking the following question:
iamcp wrote:
quran 3:53 - Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru almakireena
What is the literal meaning of eachand every word in this verse. I dont know arabic, thats why I need help on this. Please, any arabic speakers help me out.
You can see how confused such goon named iamcp, can you see that the title of his thread is the kafir manipulated answer that is supported by Dr Ali Sina
If you read the comment of such confused goon iacmp, you would have expected that the thread should be titled something like:
Help needed explaining 3:53
Or something like:
Is Allah the best of deceivers?
But as you can see, he titled his thread as : Allah is the best deciever. , how clear is their deception, keep in mind that this was his own words: What is the literal meaning of eachand every word in this verse. I dont know arabic, thats why I need help on this. Please, any arabic speakers help me out.
Now, Mister Haik took the stand to help confused iamcp and in the process he slam dunked his master Dr Ali Sina, this is how Haik replied:
H M of FFI said:
Hi iamcp,
Literally it means: "They plotted and Allah too plotted yet Allah is the best of plotters"
Oh.. each and every word?
"Wa Makaroo" = "They plotted"
"Wa makarallahi" = "And Allah too plotted"
Wallahu = "And Allah is"
Khair" = "The best"
Al Makireen" = "Plotters"
Anyway, the reference you gave is incorrect. It is Quran Chapter 3: 54. A small error and don't mind. [/color]
----------------------------------
Hahahahaha, this is exactly what the Muslims says in reply to Dr Ali Sina lie about 3:53, so I replied to H M
Ahmed said to H M
So you concede that it does not mean that He is the best of decievers
Looks like you have just slam dunked your master Dr A S
----------------------------------
We know that H M admitted his adamant deception before, now he is telling the truth witout even realizing it, so when I exposed him this is what he came up with:
H M of FFI said to Ahmed:
Ahmed, there is no slam dunk involved in here. And I don't want to adopt your style too.
Plot = Plan, Scheme, Conspire. These three are the meanings I would be happy to assing to it. In the context of Quran 3:54 Allah himself testifies as best of conspirers or planners. These are more harsh than what Ali Sina meant as deceiver. The only difference is you fail to get it right.
-----------------------------
Ahmed says:
Hahahaha, can you see how he suddenly changed his words and added the word conspire, you know to give it a bad meaning after accidentally slam dunking his master Dr Ali Sina, now all of you can see his scheme of deception that he himself admitted in action.
I replied to him as follow:
What a clear cut manipulated you are HM
The word Makar, means to plan something good or something bad
the word deceive only means to plan something bad
why don't you learn Arabic properly instead of making a dumb arse of yourself, well let me show you a verse then your self dumbness should be confirmed:
Firon said: Do you believe in Him before I have given you permission? Surely this is a plot which you have secretly devised in this city, that you may turn out of it its people, but you shall know: [The Quran ; 7:123]
قَالَ فِرْعَوْنُ آمَنتُم بِهِ قَبْلَ أَن آذَنَ لَكُمْ إِنَّ هَذَا لَمَكْرٌ مَّكَرْتُمُوهُ فِي الْمَدِينَةِ لِتُخْرِجُواْ مِنْهَا أَهْلَهَا فَسَوْفَ تَعْلَمُونَ (123)
-> The verse above is about what Firon said to the magicians when they believed in Moses, see what he told them: لَمَكْرٌ مَّكَرْتُمُوهُLa Makr MakartumoHU, i.e. a plot which you have devised it, now if you try to interchange it with the meaning of deceive then we will have a serious logical problem, see the HU that I highlighted in the word MakartumoHU, this is a DAMIR that is referring to the plot, i.e. they planned a plot, now I have to ask you but only if you have a brain to be used in an answer: can you logically say , you deceive the deception?
Of course not, i.e. Ma Ka Ra means to plan, i.e. to plan something good or plan something bad
Now if Allah is planning something good, that can not be a deception
And that should be the 25th slam dunk:
# 25
Posted:
Mon 10 Nov, 2008 12:12 am
Windsor Pawn
Status: Age: 38 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Peace brother AhmedBahgat
Regarding the having a son without a consort. First of all 6:101 says a "female companion" like AhmedBahgat explained above. In 6:101 God us talking about Himself having a physical son. To have a physical son you must have a female companion. You cannot have a physical son without a female companion. God here is communicating to us through our human understanding of having a son.
Now the next question arises, cannot God have a physical son without a female companion? Cannot He have a metaphoric/symbolic son (Adoption etc...)? The answer is sure yes He can, but He does not have such son or any other kind of son because it would be a disrespect to Him.
"For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a child." [19:92]
God here says that it is a disrespect to have any kind of child, physical or not and by whatever means possible, because it is not consonant with His majesty.
So what we have here:
1. God does not have a physical child becayuse He does not have a female companion [6:101]
2. God can have any physical (Without a female comapnion since He is omnipotent) or adopted child, but He does not because it is not consonant with His majesty and respect.
God is not a human and He does not function like a human or a male. "there is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the One that hears and sees (all things)." [42:11]
Now to the second part:
Quote:
On on hand Allah say it is not possible (6:101), but at the same time he says it is easy (19:21).
Obviously we are dealing with an illiterate retard here. 6:101 says that it is not possible for God to have a physical son like us humans since He does not have a female companion (I explained that God can have a son, physical or adopted using other means, but it would be a disrespect to Him)
19:21 says it is possible for Maryam to have a physical son by God's authority and omnipotence. See the difference? There is no contradiction whatsoever.
Also note that God denies the possibility of have a physical son without a female companion. In 19:21 we already have a female (Maryam)!
To summarize my argument:
1. God does not have a physical son like us humans since He does not have a female companion.
2. So can God have a physical or any other kind of son (Adopted etc...)? Yes He can but it would be a disrespect to His majesty.
3. It's easy for God to make human females to have children without companions. Remember that you always need a female to bear the child, not a male.
4. There is absolutely no contradiction whatsoever within the above 3 statements.
And just a last reminder "Allah is Able to do all things." [2:20]
Posted:
Mon 10 Nov, 2008 4:42 am
Windsor Pawn
Status: Age: 38 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Before proceeding to respond to the rest of those arrogant retards I just wanted to say this in response to a statement by the ignorant Zorasta_Russ regarding the Thul Qranayn story
Quote:
Why would anyone have to restructure a verse? We who are the kuffar don't have to restructure any verse.
The verse does not need restructuring because it is perfectly understandable. I just did so to make an ignorant like you understand it.
Posted:
Mon 10 Nov, 2008 5:44 am
Windsor Pawn
Status: Age: 38 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Post subject:
Quote:
Quote:
That's a good one, sun. Now we have to wait for Ahmed to come and make up a story of why the words in arabic would mean that Allah was right on both accounts.
Quote:
, On a serious note,
These people are stupid and these comments prove it. They know they are idiots who cannot write a meaningful post. This is their best.
Quote:
, On a serious note, this raises another interesting question:
Is Allah really the almighty if he cannot have a son without a consort? Seems like Christian God is far more powerful
He certainly can, but it would not be consonant with His majesty like I explained above.
I am stronger than the Christian "god" and I mean it! Just read the Tanakh and Psalms and laugh.
Quote:
This is clearly Muhammad's own sense of reasoning at work. To him, it made no sense to be able to have a son without a consort and in the verse he asks the same question that he asked himself
Wrong. If we assume for the sake of argument that it's Muhammed that authored the Quran, then you are full of ignorance and nonsense because the Quran denies that God may have any kind of son, whether with a female companion or not in 19:92.
Quote:
when Christians taught him the Gospels.
1. Christians did not exist in Mecca or Medina at the time of prophet Muhammed.
2. The Quran rebukes the Gospels on many accounts.
3. This ignorant does not know that the Quran is similar in some stories to the Torah, not the Gospels. But his ignorance, arrogance and blindness would lead him to say such foolishness. The Quran is not remotely close to anything in those Gospels.
It's up to him to prove that Christians "taught" Muhammed anything at all. It's really laughable and proves his desperation. I love it when these retards bring in their arguments things like "Muhammed forgot..." or "Muhammed did not know..." or "Muhammed misquoted the Bible..." and they want us to believe their rubbish!
Quote:
I always found it odd that Muhammad decided to call a Jesus a mere man and yet did not decide to reject the virgin birth of this mere man. It seems to me like it's got to be one or the other. Either Jesus was a mere man or he was born of a virgin birth. I don't see how one can call someone born of a virgin birth to be a regular human being like you and me and Muhammad.
Why is it odd at all? Adam was born out of nothing, which is more miraculous, yet he was a very normal human being like everybody else. Actually the says the same thing and compares the humanhood of Jesus to that of Adam in 3:59.
Obviously some are going say that Adam had to be created out of nothing since he was the first human, but this is irrelevant and still the fact remains that techincally Adam was a human being even though he was born without a father or mother. If Adam was a human, why consider Jesus more than a human? And why would a virgin birth make someone more than a human? What extra abilities would it give him really? Miracles? Moses had more impressive miracles than Jesus anyway.
Quote:
And then, of course, Muhammad does contradict himself later. Mary can have a son without a consort, but Allah cannot. So something that is not possible for Allah is possible for Mary.
I did address that above. And again, Muhammed did not author the Quran. Nonne should say as if it is a fact.
Quote:
Perhaps Muhammad didn't or couldn't remember everything he said, so occasionally, he would accidentally contradict himself like he did here.
Only an ignorant like you would think that a prophet-status man would not remember everything in the book that he was preaching.
And as I said, I addressed that so called contradiction above.
Obviously this person is more deluded than the above three because the above three are ignorant and they expressed it intheir so called comments, but this ignorant is trying to pretend to be smart. That's so sad.
Quote:
Hello IAT
I have to hand it to you - you always seem to hit the nail on the head.
sum
This is not different than the first 3. More stupid.
Quote:
There is one other thing that Allah cannot do, inspite of his powers and abilities, and that is to be "3-in-1" and "1-in-3"
This is another stupid pretending to be smart. That site seems to be full of them.
Allah never says He cannot be 3 in 1 or 1 in 3. He says He is not 3 in 1 or 1 in 3. There is a huge difference retard. Allah is not trinity because trinity is a joke. It's nonsense and rejected from a philosophical view. That's why Paul the fraud discouraged Christian sheeps from learning philosophy, because any intelligent Christian would leave such a joke of a religion on the spot.
Quote:
Allah also need angels to record the goods and bads of human probably because he has poor memories to memorize the goods and bads of billions of people. )
I am not sure if that is a Quranic verse or a Hadith as I do not remember both, but this is non sequitur at best. When I send my son to buy me something it does not mean I cannot do it. Angels record the goods and bads of people because these people will get these records of goods and bads on the Judgement Day.
Quote:
Excellent pick by sun. Thank you dear. I always encourage all to read Quran again and again so that more of its flaws will be revealed on course.
Allah can not have a son because he hasn't got a cohort, but Mariam can without cohort. Clearly Allah shot on his own foot here asking "How can He have a child, when there is for Him no consort"
A quality addition to Quran's inconsistencies and Allah's failings; I would request to all keep working on Quran so that more will be unearthed.
Yet another ignorant pretending to be a scholar. He is talking as if the Quran is full of errors and these errors are getting discovered everyday. You will never discover any error in the Quran, because it is the word of God. Thousands before you tried but failed miserably. You are far worse than them.
Posted:
Mon 10 Nov, 2008 7:17 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Thenk you brother Windsor, I hope you have answered Aksel, Ankersen question directed to you, on the other hand he also asked me another question:
Aksel, Ankersen wrote:
Sorry to interrupt Ahmed, just one thing.
No problem, I will reply to charles later anyway
Aksel, Ankersen wrote:
What about Makr in Koran 17:38?
Absoutely nothing, the verse is talking about totally different word that even have a totally different root
Sura al-Isra 36-38 wrote:
ولاتقف ماليس لك به علم ان السمع والبصر والفؤاد كل اولئك كان عنه مسؤولا
ولاتمش في الارض مرحا انك لن تخرق الارض ولن تبلغ الجبال طولا
كل ذلك كان سيئه عند ربك مكروها
Aksel, Ankersen wrote:
And follow not that of which you have not the knowledge; surely the hearing and the sight and the heart, all of these, shall be questioned about that.
And do not go about in the land exultingly, for you cannot cut through the earth nor reach the mountains in height.
All this-- the evil of it-- is hateful in the sight of your Lord.
LOL, see, the word in question is مكروها, Mukroha, i.e. is hated, its root is Ka Ra Ha, which is totally different word to Ma Ka Ra
The word Mukroha is on the wazn Mafola, the first letter M is not part of the root Ka Ra Ha, rather part of the wazn Mafola can you see the first letter M in the wazn,
Now if I want to derive the same wazn Mafola from the root Ma Ka Ra, then it has to be Mamkura, i.e. Is planned, and it should look like this: ممكورا
Aksel, Ankersen wrote:
Those things are denounced Makr in the sight of your Rabb,
WRONG, you should say it like this:
Those things are denounced as KURH, i.e. is hated in the sight of your Rabb,
Aksel, Ankersen wrote:
seems like they are a cheat or dishonesty ( وها is just a plural morpheme, I think).
Think not, the letter H in Mukroha is part of the root Ka Ra Ha, can you see the last Ha
Your question is nothing but total confusion and ignornance to the simplest of the Arabic language rules
Cheers
Posted:
Mon 10 Nov, 2008 4:30 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Post subject:
charleslemartel wrote:
Hey, don't take the statements in Quran seriously. Quran also claimed to be clear and easy to understand book. What a joke!!
AhmedBahgat wrote:
I believe this is my second time to ask you, where exactly the Quran claimed to be clear and easy to understand book? I think after you reply, we will start the third dozens of slams
Waiting for a reply.......
charleslemartel wrote:
It is rare to find a person who is intelligent, but stubbornly insists on being a retard. You are one such person.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Dismissed
Hello
So you brought in 4 Quran verses (6:114, 5:15, 44:58 & 44:22) to support you allegation, let?????????????????????¢??s look at your allegation again:
charleslemartel wrote:
Quran also claimed to be clear and easy to understand book.
I.e. in any of these 4 verses, we should read what you alleged above, let?????????????????????¢??s start with 6:114,
أَفَغَيْرَ اللّهِ أَبْتَغِي حَكَمًا وَهُوَ الَّذِي أَنَزَلَ إِلَيْكُمُ الْكِتَابَ مُفَصَّلاً وَالَّذِينَ آتَيْنَاهُمُ الْكِتَابَ يَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّهُ مُنَزَّلٌ مِّن رَّبِّكَ بِالْحَقِّ فَلاَ تَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْمُمْتَرِينَ (114) [Al Quran ; 6:114]
Shall I seek other than Allah, a judge? And He is the One Who has sent down to you the Book (which is) explained; and those whom We have given the Book know that it is sent down by your Lord with the truth, therefore you should not be of the sceptics.
The Arabic words: وَهُوَ الَّذِي أَنْزَلَ إِلَيْكُمُ الْكِتَابَ مُفَصَّلًا , Wa Hua Allazy Anzal Elaikum Alkitab Mufasala, i.e. and according to Free Islam translation above: And He is the One Who has sent down to you the Book (which is) explained . Well, the verse does not say what you alleged, remember what you said: ]Quran also claimed to be clear and easy to understand book
Where in the verse we read your allegation?, the verse only said that the Book that Allah has sent IS EXPLAINED, now, that does not mean that it is easy to understand and clear as you alleged, foro example I can spend all day long EXPLAINING to you the theory of relativity yet not one can siggest that it is easy to understand and clear, in fact I can spend a year long explaining it to others while they may never understand it nor it will be clear to them
Let me now look at the three translations you brought in for 6:114:
charleslemartel wrote:
YUSUFALI: Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.
The verse never said the words explained in details, rather it only said: explained, now, even if I assume for argument sake that the words in details were included in the Arabic text, yet it does not mean that the book is clear and easy to understand as you alleged, remember the theory of relativity example that I raised, I can explain it IN DETAILS to you for the next two years, yet that does not mean that it is clear and easy to understand as you alleged
charleslemartel wrote:
PICKTHAL: Shall I seek other than Allah for judge, when He it is Who hath revealed unto you (this) Scripture, fully explained? Those unto whom We gave the Scripture (aforetime) know that it is revealed from thy Lord in truth. So be not thou (O Muhammad) of the waverers.
The verse never said the word fully explained, rather it only said: explained, now, even if I assume for argument sake that the words fully is included in the Arabic text, yet it does not mean that the book is clear and easy to understand as you alleged, remember the theory of relativity example that I raised, I can FULLY explain it to you for the next two years, yet that does not mean that it is clear and easy to understand as you alleged
charleslemartel wrote:
SHAKIR: Shall I then seek a judge other than Allah? And He it is Who has revealed to you the Book (which is) made plain; and those whom We have given the Book know that it is revealed by your Lord with truth, therefore you should not be of the disputers.
The verse never said the word the Book made plain, rather it only said: the book is explained, there will be no assumption in here because Shakir got it totally wrong in his translation, I can spend the next two years explaining a book to you, yet my actions does not mean that I made the subject plain, if the subject is hard by its nature like the relativity example, then whatever I do to explain it to you will never take such hardship from the subject.
[The Quran ; 5:15]
O people of the Book! Indeed Our Messenger has come to you, to explain to you much of what you have concealed of the Book and pardoning much, indeed there has come to you from Allah a light and a clear book;
In the above verse, you think that the word , Mubin means makes things clear or makes things easy to understand
Well, I can see how you are confused as many are including most translators, the Arabic word Mubin is not a verb to mean ?????????????????????¢??makes things clear?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? as I will explain soon, but let me first qualify the three translation you brought in for verse 5:15
charleslemartel wrote:
YUSUFALI: O people of the Book! There hath come to you our messenger, revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary): There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book, ?????????????????????¢??
For Yusuf Ali to translate the word مُبِينٌ , Mubin as perspicuous which suppose to mean easily understandable has to be 100% wrong, the word should mean Obvious as I will prove soon inshaallah, i.e. Obvious that it is from God, or Obvious that it is not man made
charleslemartel wrote:
PICKTHAL: O People of the Scripture! Now hath Our messenger come unto you, expounding unto you much of that which ye used to hide in the Scripture, and forgiving much. now hath come unto you light from Allah and plain Scripture,
For PICKTHAL to translate the word مُبِينٌ , Mubin as plain may cause a lot of confusion to the non Arabic speakers because the may thing that it means that the Quran is easy to understand which is not the case according to the meaning of the wors Mubin as I will prove versy soon, therefore the above translation has to be rejected because it will transfer the wrong meaning of the words Mubin, the meanind should be: the Quran is plain that it is from God, or the Quran is plain that it is not man made, it never means made easy to understand as I will prove very soon without an atom weight of doubt
charleslemartel wrote:
SHAKIR: O followers of the Book! indeed Our Messenger has come to you making clear to you much of what you concealed of the Book and passing over much; indeed, there has come to you light and a clear Book from Allah;
I may accept the above translation from Shakir, however it may still cause confusion to the non Arabic speakers, because they may think that the word Mubin means that the book is easy to understand, i.e. clear, while the clarity only means that IT IS CLEAR THAT IT IS FROM GOD, or IT IS OBVIOUS THAT IT IS FROM GOD AND NOT MAN MADE, therefore I would say the best translation should be: an [b]obvious Book from Allah[/b]
That is actually what the word Mubin means, it means Obvious
I will skip your third evidence for not and look at the fourth because your fourth evidence is based on the same argument of your second evidence, i.e. based on the word Mubin, as seen below:
وَالْكِتَابِ الْمُبِينِ (2)
[The Quran ; 44:2]
And the obvious book.
-> The three translations you brought in are all wrong, because the word Mubin itself is not a verb rather a noun
i.e. all there ignorant translators are wrong:
charleslemartel wrote:
044.002
YUSUFALI: By the Book that makes things clear;-
PICKTHAL: By the Scripture that maketh plain
SHAKIR: I swear by the Book that makes manifest (the truth).
All above translation are certainly wrong, the translation should be: And the obvious book. , i.e. obvious that it is from God and not man made, let me now prove to you that this is what the word Mubin means:
To make the word Mubin, مُّبِينٌ a verb to make things clear is nothing but a total lie and clear cut case of ignorance/manipulation, let's see how the Quran explains itself by self referencing itself in an exhaustive manner (I only brought a few examples out of numerous verses):
And they say: This is nothing but clear magic [The Quran ; 37:15]
وَقَالُوا إِنْ هَذَا إِلَّا سِحْرٌ مُّبِينٌ (15)
-> How come the magic makes things clear?, obviously it means the OBVIOUS MAGIC, or the CLEAR MAGIC, or the MANIFEST MAGIC, that every human can see clearly.
And of a truth he saw himself on the clear horizon. [The Quran ; 81:23]
وَلَقَدْ رَآهُ بِالْأُفُقِ الْمُبِينِ (23)
-> How come the horizon makes things clear?, obviously it means the OBVIOUS HORIZON, or the CLEAR HORIZON, or the MANIFEST HORIZON, that every human can see clearly
Say: He is the Beneficent Allah, we believe in Him and on Him do we rely, so you shall come to know who it is that is in clear error. [The Quran ; 67:29]
قُلْ هُوَ الرَّحْمَنُ آمَنَّا بِهِ وَعَلَيْهِ تَوَكَّلْنَا فَسَتَعْلَمُونَ مَنْ هُوَ فِي ضَلَالٍ مُّبِينٍ (29)
-> How come the error makes things clear?, obviously it means the OBVIOUS ERROR, or the CLEAR ERROR, or the MANIFEST ERROR, that every human can see clearly, possibly only the believers can clearly see the CLEAR ERROR in this case, the unbelievers will always be dumb deaf and blind, they are like cattle or even worse than that, this is how they have been described in the Quran.
Or have they the means by which they listen? Then let their listener bring a clear authority. [The Quran ; 52:38]
أَمْ لَهُمْ سُلَّمٌ يَسْتَمِعُونَ فِيهِ فَلْيَأْتِ مُسْتَمِعُهُم بِسُلْطَانٍ مُّبِينٍ (38)
-> How come the authority makes things clear?, obviously it means the OBVIOUS AUTHORITY, or the CLEAR AUTHORITY, or the MANIFEST AUTHORITY, that every human can see clearly
Surely We have given to you a clear victory [The Quran ; 48:1]
إِنَّا فَتَحْنَا لَكَ فَتْحًا مُّبِينًا (1)
-> How come the victory makes things clear?, obviously it means the OBVIOUS VICTORY, or the CLEAR VICTORY, or the MANIFEST VICTORY, that every human can see clearly
Then, as for those who believed and did good works, their Lord will bring them in unto His mercy. That is the evident triumph. [The Quran ; 45:30]
فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ فَيُدْخِلُهُمْ رَبُّهُمْ فِي رَحْمَتِهِ ذَلِكَ هُوَ الْفَوْزُ الْمُبِينُ (30)
-> How come the triumph makes things clear?, obviously it means the OBVIOUS TRIUMPH, or the CLEAR TRIUMPH, or the MANIFEST TRIUMPH, that every human can see clearly
And let not the Shaitan prevent you; surely he is your obvious enemy. [The Quran ; 43:62]
وَلَا يَصُدَّنَّكُمُ الشَّيْطَانُ إِنَّهُ لَكُمْ عَدُوٌّ مُّبِينٌ (62)
-> Now this one is funny, How come the enemy makes things clear? I guess the enemy will always try to make things not clear, obviously it means the OBVIOUS ENEMY, or the CLEAR ENEMY, or the MANIFEST ENEMY, that the humans can see clearly, indeed the enemy of Islam on FFI is Mubin, i.e. it is OBVIOUS that they are the enemy of Islam
Therefore keep waiting for the day when the heaven shall bring an evident smoke, [The Quran ; 44:10]
فَارْتَقِبْ يَوْمَ تَأْتِي السَّمَاء بِدُخَانٍ مُّبِينٍ (10)
-> Here is another funny one, How come the smoke makes things clear? I guess the smoke will make us blind and disoriented, right? Obviously it means the OBVIOUS SMOKE, or the CLEAR SMOKE, or the MANIFEST SMOKE, that every human can see clearly
,
And We showered Our blessings on him and on Ishaq; and of their offspring are the doers of good, and (also) those who are clearly unjust to their own souls. [The Quran ; 37:113]
وَبَارَكْنَا عَلَيْهِ وَعَلَى إِسْحَقَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِهِمَا مُحْسِنٌ وَظَالِمٌ لِّنَفْسِهِ مُبِينٌ (113)
-> How being unjust to the own souls makes things clear, unless it means : who are OBVIOUSLY unjust to their own souls., which is a perfect translation to the Arabic words : ظَالِمٌ لِّنَفْسِهِ مُبِينٌ
So he cast down his rod, and lo! it was an obvious serpent, [The Quran ; 26:32]
فَأَلْقَى عَصَاهُ فَإِذَا هِيَ ثُعْبَانٌ مُّبِينٌ (32)
-> And finally, How come the snake makes things clear?, possibly it means An obvious snake, I don't know I will go and ask my 14 years old child and let you know.
Therefore, for the translators to come and translate the following verse:
وَالْكِتَابِ الْمُبِينِ (2)
[The Quran ; 44:2]
YUSUFALI: By the Book that makes things clear;-
PICKTHAL: By the Scripture that maketh plain SHAKIR: I swear by the Book that makes manifest (the truth).
[The Quran ; 44:2]
Their translations must be false, misleading and deceitful, it only means, any of the followings:
1) The Obvious Book
2) The Clear Book
3) The Evident Book
4) The Manifest Book
The verb to make never existed in the Arabic verse, bearing in mind that the verb Yobain, to Explain was never used with the Quran as its entity doing the verb i.e. MuBBayen with a shadda on the Ba and this is the one that means Make things clear, it is a case of words with identical letters, therefore the context is the only criteria to determine the meaning not the Tom and Jerry flawed root method
The Quran only makes things clear for the ones who sincerely want to be guided for the ones who already believed in the Quran and recognised its calibre that it is from Allah not from a bunch of humans, all the others who follow man made conjectures without being qualified by the Quran will have a seal on their minds, and hearts and they will never be able to understand it, the Quran does not make things clear as it does not really show me how to fix my car, even the scientific facts mentioned in it was put in an unclear manner which sure to serve the purpose of testing and I have no problem with that, in fact the guided ones will see those scientific miracles clearly while others will never be able to comprehend it, but what I found that the Quran does is this:
Verily this Qur'an doth guide to that which is most right (or stable), and giveth the Glad Tidings to the Believers who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a magnificent reward; [The Quran ; 17:9]
إِنَّ هَذَا الْقُرْآنَ يِهْدِي لِلَّتِي هِيَ أَقْوَمُ وَيُبَشِّرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ الَّذِينَ يَعْمَلُونَ الصَّالِحَاتِ أَنَّ لَهُمْ أَجْرًا كَبِيرًا (9)
Let me now look at your third evidence (44:58) and see for ourselves how confused your are:
فَإِنَّمَا يَسَّرْنَاهُ بِلِسَانِكَ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَذَكَّرُونَ (58)
[The Quran ; 44:58]
Here is the three translations you brought in:
charleslemartel wrote:
044.058
YUSUFALI: Verily, We have made this (Qur'an) easy, in thy tongue, in order that they may give heed[/b].
PICKTHAL: And We have made (this Scripture) easy in thy language only that they may heed.
SHAKIR: So have We made it easy in your tongue that they may be mindful
The proper translation should be as follow:
And we have made it easy on your tongue, perhaps they may remember
[The Quran ; 44:58]
-> Well, verse 44:58 never said your allegation that the Quran is easy to understand as well makes things clear , it only said that the Quran was made easy on Mohammed tongue, can you guess why?, because he never knew how to read nor write, therefore Mohammed needed help for him to be able to recite to other people using his tongue, this in no way means that the Quran is easy to understand for all, in fact the Quran MUST be hard to understand for the kafirs like you who oppose the message of Allah as we clearly read in the following verse:
And who is more unjust than he who is reminded of the signs of his Lord, then he turns away from them and forgets what his two hands have sent before? Surely We have placed veils over their hearts lest they should understand it and a heaviness in their ears; and if you call them to the guidance, they will not ever follow the right course in that case. [The Quran ; 18:57]
وَمَنْ أَظْلَمُ مِمَّنْ ذُكِّرَ بِآيَاتِ رَبِّهِ فَأَعْرَضَ عَنْهَا وَنَسِيَ مَا قَدَّمَتْ يَدَاهُ ۚ إِنَّا جَعَلْنَا عَلَىٰ قُلُوبِهِمْ أَكِنَّةً أَنْ يَفْقَهُوهُ وَفِي آذَانِهِمْ وَقْرًا ۖ وَإِنْ تَدْعُهُمْ إِلَى الْهُدَىٰ فَلَنْ يَهْتَدُوا إِذًا أَبَدًا (57)
-> See, And who is more unjust than he who is reminded of the signs of his Lord, then he turns away from them and forgets what his two hands have sent before? , that must be a kafir like you, hey. Then we read what Allah is going to do to the kafirs like who, when they are reminded with the signs of Allah they turn away: Surely We have placed veils over their hearts lest they should understand it and a heaviness in their ears; , i.e. the likes of you will never believe while insisting on their horrible attitude towards the message: and if you call them to the guidance, they will not ever follow the right course in that case. , i.e. it will be impossible that the Quran will make it easy for you to understand while you insist on opposing and mocking the message, that is what your hands have earned
Here is another example that proves that the Quran will never be easy for the likes of you:
45: And when you recite the Quran, We place between you and those who do not believe in the hereafter a hidden barrier;
46: And We have placed coverings on their hearts and a heaviness in their ears lest they understand it, and when you mention your Lord alone in the Quran they turn their backs in aversion. [The Quran ; 17:45-46]
وَإِذَا قَرَأْتَ الْقُرْآنَ جَعَلْنَا بَيْنَكَ وَبَيْنَ الَّذِينَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ بِالْآخِرَةِ حِجَابًا مَسْتُورًا (45)
وَجَعَلْنَا عَلَىٰ قُلُوبِهِمْ أَكِنَّةً أَنْ يَفْقَهُوهُ وَفِي آذَانِهِمْ وَقْرًا ۚ وَإِذَا ذَكَرْتَ رَبَّكَ فِي الْقُرْآنِ وَحْدَهُ وَلَّوْا عَلَىٰ أَدْبَارِهِمْ نُفُورًا (46)
-> See: when you recite the Quran, We place between you and those who do not believe in the hereafter a hidden barrier; , i.e. you will never understand it, this is because you are one: who do not believe in the hereafter , i.e. the Quran will be impossible for you to understand while not believing in the hereafter: And We have placed coverings on their hearts and a heaviness in their ears lest they understand it , look at yourself when someone like me tells you about God, what ou do?, the Quran tells us what the likes of you will do: and when you mention your Lord alone in the Quran they turn their backs in aversion. , that must be you, hey, see how accurate the Quran is, it is talking about you
And finally:
25: And among them are those who listen to you, and We have made over their hearts veils lest they understand it and in their ears deafness; and if they see every sign they will not believe in it; even when they come to you they dispute with you; those who have disbelieved say: This is naught but the stories of the former (people).
26: And they prevent (others) from it and they keep away from it, but they only destroy themselves while they do not perceive.
27: And if you could see when they are made to stand before the fire, then they will say: Oh, would that we are sent back, and we would not reject the signs of our Lord and we would be among the believers. [The Quran ; 6:25-27]
وَمِنْهُمْ مَنْ يَسْتَمِعُ إِلَيْكَ ۖ وَجَعَلْنَا عَلَىٰ قُلُوبِهِمْ أَكِنَّةً أَنْ يَفْقَهُوهُ وَفِي آذَانِهِمْ وَقْرًا ۚ وَإِنْ يَرَوْا كُلَّ آيَةٍ لَا يُؤْمِنُوا بِهَا ۚ حَتَّىٰ إِذَا جَاءُوكَ يُجَادِلُونَكَ يَقُولُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا إِنْ هَٰذَا إِلَّا أَسَاطِيرُ الْأَوَّلِينَ (25)
وَهُمْ يَنْهَوْنَ عَنْهُ وَيَنْأَوْنَ عَنْهُ ۖ وَإِنْ يُهْلِكُونَ إِلَّا أَنْفُسَهُمْ وَمَا يَشْعُرُونَ (26)
وَلَوْ تَرَىٰ إِذْ وُقِفُوا عَلَى النَّارِ فَقَالُوا يَا لَيْتَنَا نُرَدُّ وَلَا نُكَذِّبَ بِآيَاتِ رَبِّنَا وَنَكُونَ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ (27)
-> See what the kafirs do when the signs of Allah are explained to them: And among them are those who listen to you , while they and if they see every sign they will not believe in it; even when they come to you they dispute with you; those who have disbelieved say: This is naught but the stories of the former (people). , sounds like you, hey. Well, this must be applied to you too: and We have made over their hearts veils lest they understand it and in their ears deafness.
-> The verse above are so accurate that it tells us more about the likes of you, see: And they prevent (others) from it and they keep away from it, , I have some bad news for you then: but they only destroy themselves while they do not perceive. , it is tough, hey, well here is the rest of the bad news: And if you could see when they are made to stand before the fire, then they will say: Oh, would that we are sent back, and we would not reject the signs of our Lord and we would be among the believers.
You may argue and say: ok now you understand why the Quran is hard on kafirs like you, but what about the believers like me, why it is so hard on them too, well the answer is really simple, because they shirked what Allah has sent to them with man made crap that is called the books of Ulmaaa, like the man made hadith books, i.e. the Quran must be hard to understand for them too
You should know now that this will take us to:
# 26
Posted:
Mon 10 Nov, 2008 6:24 pm
Windsor Pawn
Status: Age: 38 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 69 Location: Canada
Post subject:
Quote:
Hello my fellow freak, AhmedBahgat
Koran 6:101 suggests that Allah functions just the same as man.
No it does not. There is nothing like God.
Quote:
What would Allah do to, or with, a consort in order to have a son? Does it imply that Allah would need a female with whom to have sexual intercourse? Would the son be born, as we understand birth, up in the seventh heaven and somehow be brought down by bouraq and deposited on earth? Would Allah`s son need a human female to care for him? Can you picture this event?
God here is rebuking such a possibility. He is rebuking the possibility of having a physical son as we understand it here on earth.
You point on "bouraq" and "seventh heaven" are laughable. "Bouraq" is a myth that does not exist, and heavens in the Quran refers to multiple universes.
Quote:
The whole thing is laughable yet muslims accept all this nonsense. What has happened to them?
Who said we or God accept this? God rebuked having a physical son by a female companion, or having a physical son without a female companion, or having any other kind of son in 2 verses. So what the hell are balbbering about?
Quote:
Does Allah function like a human being? What makes Allah a male?
sum
No, He does not function like a human being and He is not a male.
Posted:
Tue 11 Nov, 2008 5:02 am
Windsor Pawn
Status: Age: 38 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 69 Location: Canada
Post subject:
Quote:
Furthermore, even otherwise your argument is wrong. Can you deny that Allah is supposed to be far more powerful than Mary?
Of course He is. where did this guy get that impression from?
Quote:
All the impossibles for Mary should be possibles for Allah.
Sure.
Quote:
And of course, whatever Mary was capable of, Allah has to be more than capable of doing that. Quran itself is the testimony for the fact that Mary was capable of doing something (having a son without a sexual partner) which was impossible for Allah.
You slam dunks boomerang unfailingly .
Again you prove your stupidity. It is Allah who made Maryam have a son without a companion. Mary did not do this herself.
God can have any kind of son as I expalined above, but it is not consonant with His majesty.
Posted:
Tue 11 Nov, 2008 5:08 am
Windsor Pawn
Status: Age: 38 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 69 Location: Canada
Post subject:
Quote:
Surely you do not mean to say that the messenger had a sexual intercourse with Mary?
No he did not. He just made it possible.
Quote:
Allah has clearly said that he cannot have a son without a female companion. This raises serious question about the so called almighty.
God can have any son whatsoever but He does not do it because it is not consonant with his majesty. I expalined that above.
Posted:
Tue 11 Nov, 2008 5:13 am
Windsor Pawn
Status: Age: 38 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 69 Location: Canada
Post subject:
Quote:
Hey bro Windsor
This is a question for you by an FFI member whom I think is very decent:
Finally a decent member of that site?!
Quote:
Hello Ahmed
What problem does your friend Windsor have with Zoroastrians? Just reading the commentary from free-islam.com and it sounds like he is the hater.
Zoroastrianism is a Nazi and racist ideology. It thrives on the concept that all Iranians must be Zoroastrian, however ridiculous and stupid this religion might be, like their forefathers thousands of years ago. They believe Iranian Muslims, who are like 98% of the population, and even Bahais and Jews etc... must be Zoroastrian or else they are not true Iranians. I talked to some of them and found them among the most racist, bigoted, ignorant and arrogant people in the world. They hate Muslims, and especially Arabs, with a tremendous passion. All the Zoroastrians that I have met, except one to be fair, were always like that. And just a small correction, I do not hate them, I despise people with such mentality. Religion should never be mixed or restricted to a certain race.
Posted:
Tue 11 Nov, 2008 5:23 am
Windsor Pawn
Status: Age: 38 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 69 Location: Canada
Post subject:
Quote:
The FFI goon is named Haik Monsieur, he claims to be an ex Muslims (which I believe is a lie),
This is one of their oldest and most famous tricks! and they expect us to buy it! Obviously any thinking and rational person can see that over 70% of them are clear cut frauds.
Posted:
Tue 11 Nov, 2008 6:14 am
Windsor Pawn
Status: Age: 38 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 69 Location: Canada
Post subject:
Quote:
Thenk you brother Windsor, I hope you have answered Aksel, Ankersen question directed to you,
I have just done so.
Please keep us updated with their responses.
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